Spherical forums

General Discussion => Site Comments => Topic started by: DaVince on March 09, 2016, 05:09:41 pm

Title: Front page discussion
Post by: DaVince on March 09, 2016, 05:09:41 pm
Edit: the new front page is now here! (http://www.spheredev.org/) This thread is repurposed for further development updates.

Okay, so N E O was so kind as to give me the source code of the current front page.

In the following days, I am planning to overhaul it. Specifically, I want to make it so that it actually becomes unconfusing, useful and appealing to anyone looking to make a game. I'm trying to make it so that the page is useful to old users and attractive to potential new users - something I think we all agree has been lacking so far.

So I had this in mind:

- The current links for us long-time users, made compact at the top of the page
- A brief introduction of what Sphere actually is
- A quick showcase of what kind of games you can make in Sphere
- Quick and easy "Getting Started" links which point to: Sphere Studio, minisphere, the API reference and the Tutorials section on the wiki.

Now, I've already started work on this, but I just wanted to ask the whole community what you guys think and if you have any comments or suggestions on anything else to add or not add.
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: Fat Cerberus on March 09, 2016, 05:21:08 pm
This sounds great.  minisphere especially should really benefit from being on the front page as it'll make it more discoverable to search engines.

I don't have any suggestions at the moment, but I'll think on it and come back to this thread soon.
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: Flying Jester on March 09, 2016, 05:34:58 pm
The one thing I have been pleasantly impressed with in the current front page is the short list of new forum posts on the front page. I like to see that stay.
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: Chad Zechs on March 09, 2016, 05:40:16 pm
My only thought is (eventually) look to integrating the overall website design and functionality with the forums. Though my understanding of that is limited, and by limited I mean I've been so far away from web design that I have no idea what I'm talking about anymore. But that's my suggestion, regardless :P
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: DaVince on March 09, 2016, 05:47:13 pm
FJ: I actually agree with that! Will be making some mockups to see where and how we could position the elements comfortably.

Zechs: well, I don't see too much of a need to integrate the forums into the main site. Mostly, I just want the front page to truly be a useful front page and a simple hub to the other pages, which all have rather scattered/differing designs and underlying technology. That can be tough to unify, and probably not necessary when the sites at least point to the right pages and resources.

That said, N E O (the admin) was working on a visual theme for the forums that resembles the front page, so this is probably all that's really needed in that regard. That and the "latest threads" listing. :)
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: DaVince on March 09, 2016, 06:25:34 pm
Okay, seeking help and input!

1. I want to pick some of the best things to showcase. What games would you all suggest?

2. Could someone please make a few good representative screenshots of Sphere Studio, at ~800x600 resolution? Stuff that shows off the script editor and some maps/dialogs, perhaps. I'm on Linux and my Windows install is currently horribly broken, so...

3. I've tried to compile a list of the most important links that will feature at the top of the page, in a decently sized dedicated space. What do you think? Did I miss anything in this?

- Community
-- Forums
-- ?? Social media links here perhaps?

- Downloads
-- minisphere
-- Sphere Studio
-- Legacy downloads

- Games
-- Games (on downloads repo)
-- Release Forum

- Resources
-- Wiki
-- API reference (on wiki)
-- Resources (on downloads repo)
-- Resources subforum
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: Fat Cerberus on March 09, 2016, 06:33:11 pm
I can do the Sphere Studio screenshots. :)
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: Flying Jester on March 09, 2016, 06:56:44 pm

1. I want to pick some of the best things to showcase. What games would you all suggest?


I'm thinking of the games that always made me think "That's awesome, I should play with Sphere right now!":

Blockman
The Rainis Manuscript
Gryphon Chapter (if any screenshots still exist?)
Kefka's Revenge
(That crazy thing SDHawk made with the flying ships made out of mushrooms)

I'm sure some of Tung's old experiments would be nice, too. Like his Sphere Paint program, if anyone still has it or can find screenshots.
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: Fat Cerberus on March 09, 2016, 07:21:10 pm

(That crazy thing SDHawk made with the flying ships made out of mushrooms)


That would be In the Steps of the Blackfoot, my first minisphere compatibility target. ;D
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: DaVince on March 09, 2016, 07:32:27 pm
Lord English - thanks for doing the screenshots! :)

Flying Jester - good suggestions! And while the Rainis Manuscript and Gryphon Chapter (didn't know about this one!) seem like good suggestions, I'd want to have games that we can actually link a download to.

Hmm, thinking more about it, I'm going to implement one of those little sliding showcase thingees. Thinking of showing the following right now:

- Blockman
- Kefka's Revenge
- Trial and Error
- Sir Boingers (sorry :P)
- Spectacles
- Cellar Rush (Radnen's Ludum Dare game from 2013) (note: I just found that minisphere doesn't want to run it, might want to debug it :) )
- Aquatis
- In the Steps of the Blackfoot

That already seems like plenty to me.
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: DaVince on March 09, 2016, 07:41:36 pm
I'm mocking up a layout before actually working on the code. Any thoughts on this general layout? (Note: this pic is mostly about the layout and content and not actual visual theming whatsoever!)
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: Fat Cerberus on March 09, 2016, 07:50:58 pm
I'm thinking the Facebook/Google+/Forum/Wiki links should be icons along the top, to the right of the "Spherical Game Dev Community" logo.
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: Fat Cerberus on March 09, 2016, 08:01:23 pm

- Cellar Rush (Radnen's Ludum Dare game from 2013) (note: I just found that minisphere doesn't want to run it, might want to debug it :) )


I'll check into that, minisphere used to run that.
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: Flying Jester on March 09, 2016, 08:02:42 pm

Flying Jester - good suggestions! And while the Rainis Manuscript and Gryphon Chapter (didn't know about this one!) seem like good suggestions, I'd want to have games that we can actually link a download to.


I made Gryphon Chapter, and never released any downloads. It looked impressive (and had the last and by far most advanced version of the Majestic Map Engine), but the code was lost over the years.

I remember posting a bunch of screenshots to RMN (at least 3, apparently). This is, I think, the only remaining image:

http://rpgmaker.net/media/content/users/23741/locker/GC3.png (http://rpgmaker.net/media/content/users/23741/locker/GC3.png)

I would personally think it's fine to have a shot or two of at least the Rainis Manuscript, since it's kind of historically important to Sphere.
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: DaVince on March 09, 2016, 08:27:28 pm
Oh, I remember that game! I didn't know, or at least forgot, about its name. Looks like an excellent screenshot candidate if anything because it shows how diverse Sphere can be!

Speaking of the Majestic Map Engine, My memory's kinda fuzzy on it. Was there any production ready version out at any point?

Lord English: that's actually where they were before in the design too. Might be good to keep them there, I suppose! Heck, there's plenty of space to actually reiterate the few very most important links there too. But all of that is variable, I'll just start working on implementing this design first and worry about the details later.
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: Flying Jester on March 09, 2016, 08:49:04 pm

Speaking of the Majestic Map Engine, My memory's kinda fuzzy on it. Was there any production ready version out at any point?


Well, there is a _very_ early version in the Google drive right now. But it's missing elevation and the dynamic terrain features I added, which were the main features!

I have definitely lost all of my old copies in the intervening years. I think the SimCity demo I made has the newest surviving version, although it was separated out into MJ-13.js, MJ-13b.js, and MJ-14.js. MJ-14 has the elevation features, although why I had separated out some of the original features into MJ-13 and MJ-13b is kind of fuzzy to me at this point. Probably some kind of performance-related modification for the SimCity demo. That version is still missing a few of the features from the Gryphon Chapter version, but some of those (including the simple pathfinding features) are well and truly gone at this point.

It was production ready, although it never had any sort of editor. A part of its appeal was that any image editor could act as a map editor, making it actually easier to use on Mac and Linux than the normal Sphere maps :P

Sidenote, looking back through that code is a trip down memory lane!
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: Radnen on March 09, 2016, 10:30:32 pm
Wow, lots of discussion today!

So here's what I would like to see:
1. This is definitely not a v1 feature, but someday a way to host downloads (google drive or otherwise (user submits their own d/l link?)) I know there's a link to the repo, but individualized game pages would be nice (like RMN, but Sphere-centric).
2. In relation to #1 above, we can have a more dedicated games showcase page, it can be simple at first, with just images and/or videos. Something like this: https://www.yoyogames.com/showcase
3. A news section and not just forum posts... so that there's more life on the front page, especially near the top. Not necessarily the forum activity, but maybe more like a blog? For example, announcing an official release of the editor or engine, or announcements on game jams and other community events.

I know we are a small community, but a bit more impression of being larger than we are (which given Sphere's history is not a bad thing) can help get new people interested. Look at the GameMaker website, it really has taken off since I first used it in 2004.
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: DaVince on March 09, 2016, 11:50:56 pm
These are cool, but like you said, definitely not v1 features. I personally just want to keep it fairly simple at first and turn the front page into something that attracts new members and gives them some direction first, as well as actually put Sphere on the map (like it deserves and should be).
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: Fat Cerberus on March 12, 2016, 12:56:11 am
One thing I think the site definitely needs on the front page, preferably close to the top, is a section showing what the newest version of minisphere and Sphere Studio is, with a link that leads to the changelog and downloads.  That way people can quickly check the homepage to see if they need to update, without having to hunt through the site.
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: DaVince on March 12, 2016, 02:49:40 am
Oh, that's a very good one! We'll have to see how we can do it implementation-wise though. (Maybe a wiki page or the code looking at a webpage/Github/the forum thread title?)
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: Fat Cerberus on March 12, 2016, 03:43:40 am
Latest engine will always be available here:
https://github.com/fatcerberus/minisphere/releases

Studio:
https://github.com/Radnen/spherestudio/releases

Not sure how difficult it would be to scrape data from that though.  Alternatively I think GitHub has an API for this kind of thing, I don't know anything about it though.
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: N E O on March 12, 2016, 11:27:08 pm

Latest engine will always be available here:
https://github.com/fatcerberus/minisphere/releases

Studio:
https://github.com/Radnen/spherestudio/releases

Not sure how difficult it would be to scrape data from that though.  Alternatively I think GitHub has an API for this kind of thing, I don't know anything about it though.


If GitHub has an API that would be groovy. Would have to make sure to double-check the releases are tagged properly, though.
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: Flying Jester on March 13, 2016, 10:28:02 pm
I think there is an RSS feed for every project you could hook into.
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: N E O on March 15, 2016, 10:38:39 pm
For convenience I added to the htaccess a redirect to the GDrive from http://www.spheredev.org/dl
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: DaVince on February 05, 2017, 02:10:16 pm
This page is now in actual active development. I'm just making a static page out of it since that's easy to do and we don't truly need much more than that. But at least it will properly advertise the engine itself, its advantages, showcase what has been/can be made with it, and of course a bunch of useful links.

I'm also planning to add a little downloads section and focus it on mainly minisphere, since that is the most functional implementation out there right now.
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: DaVince on February 05, 2017, 04:17:07 pm
A preview of the design and layout so far:
http://vincent.tengudev.com/temp/spherical/

Any input is definitely welcomed.
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: Fat Cerberus on February 05, 2017, 04:22:15 pm
I'll give it a good look when I get home, but I like what I'm seeing so far.  It's even mobile friendly!

Note: minisphere will be rebranded to miniSphere (capital S) in the next release.
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: DaVince on February 05, 2017, 04:25:04 pm
I take extra care to make things mobile friendly these days. :D

Will change the branding accordingly! Oh, and obviously the demo slider's content is all just placeholder stuff.
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: Fat Cerberus on February 06, 2017, 12:40:11 am
Since miniSphere is pretty much made out as the official download (and rightfully so, in my opinion ;)), it would probably be a good idea to include a breakdown summary of major features in the most recent big release, e.g. the current release is v4.4, something like this:

What's new in miniSphere 4.4?
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: DaVince on February 06, 2017, 02:06:12 am
I considered that, but in the end, I want to keep the amount of information shown on the front page short and focused. The moment you click on the link, you get all the details anyway. :) WOULD be a good idea to at least fetch and display the latest version number though.

As for actual advantages and features, I was thinking of incorporating that into the "what is Sphere?" bit.
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: Fat Cerberus on February 06, 2017, 03:55:50 am

As for actual advantages and features, I was thinking of incorporating that into the "what is Sphere?" bit.


Sounds like a good idea.  I think it's important to highlight major features--particularly the ones Sphere 1.x doesn't have, such as ES6 support, debugging, a programmable compiler, etc.  That'll hopefully intrigue newcomers too, if they see all these awesome features listed.  If we can convince people that this is the Node.js of game development, we might just have a shot at making a name for Sphere. :)
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: scojin on February 06, 2017, 10:19:44 pm
Looks clean; I likes
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: Fat Cerberus on February 06, 2017, 10:29:41 pm
Looking at the page again on the desktop, I don't like the positioning of the screenshot box.  It takes up half of my 1080p monitor and sits above the "What is Sphere?" section, which I have to scroll down to actually read.  I'd recommend reorganizing it a bit to make the introduction readable without scrolling, so that newcomers can find out exactly what this thing is that they've just stumbled upon; the slideshow should go alongside the intro text as if to say "See?  This is what you can make with our engine!".

Not sure what else right now.  I guess the best piece of general advice I have is this: Try to design the website the way I designed the Sphere v2 API and imagine you've just discovered this thing.  You want to intrigue these users, not scare them away or confuse them.
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: Radnen on February 07, 2017, 01:54:41 am
Not bad. It fits the white, simple theme of the sphere forums.
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: DaVince on February 08, 2017, 03:10:45 am
Thanks for the feedback! Gonna finish it in the weekend, since I'm a little overworked atm...


Looking at the page again on the desktop, I don't like the positioning of the screenshot box.  It takes up half of my 1080p monitor and sits above the "What is Sphere?" section, which I have to scroll down to actually read.  I'd recommend reorganizing it a bit to make the introduction readable without scrolling, so that newcomers can find out exactly what this thing is that they've just stumbled upon; the slideshow should go alongside the intro text as if to say "See?  This is what you can make with our engine!".

I've considered this, and it's been bothering me as well. It was a little difficult to fit things in: making the screenshot box smaller made it look worse. The reason why "What is Sphere?" IS still visible is so that interested people can keep scrolling, realizing that there IS more information on the engine.

But actually, my plan was to have two columns for the "what is Sphere?" bit: really clear, succinct text on the left, and... a screenshot of Sphere in action on the right. But now that I think about it, that screenshot could totally be just the game preview slider. ;D
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: Fat Cerberus on February 08, 2017, 03:25:11 am
Quote
But actually, my plan was to have two columns for the "what is Sphere?" bit: really clear, succinct text on the left, and... a screenshot of Sphere in action on the right. But now that I think about it, that screenshot could totally be just the game preview slider. ;D


Right, that's what I was envisioning too.  You tell people about Sphere and at the same time show them different types of games that can be made with it.
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: DaVince on February 08, 2017, 04:47:42 am
I'm resuming work on this in the weekend. In the meantime, any suggestions about what games we should showcase on the front page would be appreciated! I'll limit/randomize their order of display as well.

So far, I can think of:


Thoughts/suggestions? And if anyone has any particularly appealing screenshots, please send them to me. :)

Edit: to be honest, I'm thinking of more around the community right now. During my internship lately I've discovered just how powerful a CMS like WordPress could be, even just for managing and displaying all the different games that have been released for Sphere. We could then randomize the front page by fetching a few of the games (with screenshots) from there. But this is just future thinking... :)
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: Fat Cerberus on February 08, 2017, 11:57:56 pm
Note that Aquatis doesn't run out of the box on miniSphere, due to having mp3 music.  It should be nearly fully compatible otherwise though; that game was one my compatibility benchmarks during initial development of the engine.

For Beaker games, I know for a fact that Migget Chainsaw Hands works.  miniSphere was compatible with that very, very early on (even before the map engine was implemented!) :D
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: DaVince on February 17, 2017, 05:51:31 am
Resumed work on the front page. Does anyone have good screenshots of Sphere games that I could use for this?
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: Fat Cerberus on February 17, 2017, 11:17:54 am
Here's some Spectacles: Bruce's Story screenshots you can use.
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: Fat Cerberus on February 22, 2017, 07:28:20 pm
Seeing stuff like this:
http://vincent.tengudev.com/temp/spherical/js/spherical.js

Makes me really appreciate all the thought I put into making the Sphere v2 API easy to understand, even at the cost of all the breaking changes during the experimental phase.  The state of modern web JS APIs is a mess.  if (readyState == 4)?  Seriously? ???
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: DaVince on February 24, 2017, 04:12:48 am
Gotta say, that bit was a direct copy from a StackOverflow post. It DOES look messy though. :D Generally it's a little more elegant than that. I might just end up using whatever PHP code the current site uses... as long as the module it requires actually gets installed.

I'm also a little stuck on the actual page content right now, to be honest. That should be about the only thing left (as well as waiting on NEO to respond on putting it online).
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: Fat Cerberus on February 24, 2017, 10:19:24 am
Well, yeah, I wasn't faulting you for writing the code (or copying it, as the case may be); it just struck me as lazy API design.  Also, "XMLHttpRequest".  For a class that has nothing to do with XML.  I think whoever designed it must have been on crack. :P

Anyway, I did notice you seemed to be hung up on the page content.  Unfortunately I don't really have any suggestions... this is why I never made a website for miniSphere.  The "latest miniSphere version" thing doesn't seem to work though?
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: mezzoEmrys on February 25, 2017, 02:47:35 am

Also, "XMLHttpRequest".  For a class that has nothing to do with XML.


Ah, the good old days, when people who wrote APIs thought that XML was going to be the biggest and best way to transmit data over the internet.
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: DaVince on February 27, 2017, 03:50:17 am

Well, yeah, I wasn't faulting you for writing the code (or copying it, as the case may be); it just struck me as lazy API design.  Also, "XMLHttpRequest".  For a class that has nothing to do with XML.  I think whoever designed it must have been on crack. :P

I dunno, I'm literally reading RSS feeds, which are XML files, so...
It'd be nice if I could fetch the feed using JSON instead, but SMF doesn't seem to support that. Or I can't find the feed for it if it does. In any case, I have code that functions (asynchonously at that), so whatever.

Quote
Anyway, I did notice you seemed to be hung up on the page content.  Unfortunately I don't really have any suggestions... this is why I never made a website for miniSphere.

It's going to have to be a combination of what features make Sphere in general so powerful, as well as what new cool stuff yours brings to the table. So really, having a list of features and trying to combine/cross some out would work well here. But it'll require some time to do and write the text I can't really bring up right now, unfortunately.

Quote
The "latest miniSphere version" thing doesn't seem to work though?

It just hasn't been coded in yet, only the latest forum post thing works. But it'll be easy enough to do. Also, the wiki is in a really sorry state... :/
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: DaVince on June 03, 2017, 12:18:02 pm
February, huh? It's about time I start wrapping this up. casiotone has been so kind as to give me FTP access, and N E O also seemed fine with the new updated website.

I've made "Latest Sphere version" work and I'm finishing up the text. Will put it live after that. :)
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: DaVince on June 03, 2017, 05:54:55 pm
The new front page is now live.
Check it: http://spheredev.org/

Spread the news around! Now that we have something that properly advertises Sphere, we might actually get some new people interested. :)
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: Fat Cerberus on June 03, 2017, 05:57:25 pm
One minor request: Chamge capitalization to "miniSphere" as that's the official capitalization.  camelCase to match usual JavaScript naming conventions ;)
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: DaVince on June 03, 2017, 05:57:50 pm

One minor request: Chamge capitalization to "miniSphere" as that's the official capitalization.  camelCase to match usual JavaScript naming conventions ;)

Ohh, and here I thought it went from minisphere to MiniSphere. Fixed.
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: Rhuan on June 03, 2017, 07:54:10 pm
Looks pretty - good work.
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: DaVince on June 03, 2017, 08:41:01 pm
Thanks! Suggestions are always welcome.
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: East on June 05, 2017, 03:31:34 am
Woohoo! Didn't see this thread so I had a nice surprise getting on Spheredev this morning! Looks very nice and welcoming. I was just recommending Sphere to a friend a couple of days ago, wish I would have waited.  ;D
Title: Re: New front page in development
Post by: DaVince on June 05, 2017, 03:38:07 am
Good to hear! Giving a good, clear impression was the main aim with this, rather than the confusing impression it gave before.
Title: Re: Development on the front page
Post by: DaVince on June 20, 2017, 03:15:41 pm
Update: added display of latest wiki article.

Future plan: randomly pick from a pool of games to display in the slider. (Especially fully finished games)
Title: Re: Development on the front page
Post by: Eggbertx on June 20, 2017, 04:11:14 pm
No mention or screenshot of QtSphere IDE? ;_;

I kid, it looks great!
Title: Re: Development on the front page
Post by: DaVince on June 21, 2017, 01:25:28 am

No mention or screenshot of QtSphere IDE? ;_;

I kid, it looks great!

I'm more than ready to add it once it reaches a stage of maturity... ;)
Title: Re: Development on the front page
Post by: Eggbertx on June 21, 2017, 05:09:06 am
Yeah, I figure it would be best to wait until it has a map/tileset/spriteset editor.