Spherical forums

General Discussion => Off-Topic Discussions => Topic started by: Harry Bo21 on June 05, 2013, 07:54:34 am

Title: Why will no other graphics card work in my PC!?
Post by: Harry Bo21 on June 05, 2013, 07:54:34 am
I tried the old one outta my old PC, no picture at ALL. Tried a brand new GEFORCE GTX 650 TI - Absolutly nothing

Put the old card in (Even after uninstalling its drivers) and it displays using windows drivers. None of the other cards will?

Pc is a Advent DT2412. All Ive found is that the LECAGY boot mode doesnt work so your meant to change some settings on the BIOS. I did that, still no picture.

Anything I found on goodle said you have to disable onboard graphics. There is NO way to do that in the bios, you can change setting for the onboard but not disable. For the record the onboard graphics dont work if any of the problem cards are connected

Motherboard is a MSI board, which are apparently also a pain

I just cant figure this out and its really bumming me out. If I dont solve it the wife wont let me try again lol, her response is "Well obviously OUR computer cant have good graphics".

Can anyone help?

EDIT : The NEW GTX 650 card works in my OLD pc so the card isnt faulty. On the box it doesnt say it supports WIN 8 but their website does
Title: Re: Why will no other graphics card work in my PC!?
Post by: Radnen on June 05, 2013, 02:02:49 pm
Check your power settings, maybe you don't have a large enough power supply? You should get at least a 500W unit, the 650 takes at least 450W to function. This is just a guess, however.
Title: Re: Why will no other graphics card work in my PC!?
Post by: Rukiri on June 05, 2013, 05:13:23 pm
Get an 850 platinum or gold rating power supply, not enough power.
Title: Re: Why will no other graphics card work in my PC!?
Post by: Flying Jester on June 05, 2013, 05:48:53 pm
You can usually hear a certain whining sound when a power supply can't provide enough power for what's plugged into it.

I manage a pair of GTX 550 ti's (among quite a few other cards, and a very power-expensive CPU) with only a 400 watt PSU. Some PSUs are good for more than what they are rated, some cheap ones less.

Do you know the actual PCIe connection your board uses? Are you using the other (if any) PCIe slots?

You could try disabling any power management from the BIOS. And the card should be able to coexist with the onboard graphics (unless you have one of the hybrid SLI motherboards which make such things much more complicated).
Title: Re: Why will no other graphics card work in my PC!?
Post by: Harry Bo21 on June 07, 2013, 06:33:59 pm
Tech support told me that the card isn't UEFI flashed.

He told me a load of things that "should" have worked but none did. I only had one PCIe slot so couldn't run the old and new card so I took it back to the shop

I made them waive their usual £25 fee, as I had asked all these questions when I bought the PC and I wasn't told this. I suppose in the future these card wills come already flashed?

I got it back and it was working great. I was kicking ass on Batman AA on all the max settings!

Then it just stopped working again. I looked at the back of the pc and the card they "fit" is crazy loose? They didn't fit any screws to the case so it was just that one plastic clip on one side of the PCIe that was holding it in?

I assume that is the problem. I also had a power cut. When I turned the PC on, no Display. Its still getting into windows though as I can hear it start.

So its back at the shop. And they have no tech guys there until Monday. Fantastic...

By the way required power was 400W I had 450W. But the card worked in my old PC that only had 350W when I had to test it worked and it did
Title: Re: Why will no other graphics card work in my PC!?
Post by: Flying Jester on June 07, 2013, 07:58:37 pm
Losing a PCIe connection while running can fry the motherboard, the card (especially graphics cards), or both.

You'd probably be fine with a 350 watt, but if you have a 450 watt it's almost certainly fine.
Title: Re: Why will no other graphics card work in my PC!?
Post by: Harry Bo21 on June 09, 2013, 12:21:08 am
If that is the case surely they are responsible as they did not fix the card in?

Theres a metal panal that locks in there, but it doesn't fit over the shape of the graphics card (hard to explain). So I would have put a screw in the hole the card is over, as it is a SCREW hole. That clip just fits there too. They didn't, so it was literally just pushed in

I didn't realize til I went looking to see why it wasn't working.

I have a feeling im gonna end up arguing if that's happened...

I was just starting to enjoy PC gaming again bah!
Title: Re: Why will no other graphics card work in my PC!?
Post by: Harry Bo21 on June 12, 2013, 10:21:28 pm
I had the computer back a day with the old graphics card in it and its all ok. She said she couldnt do it that do so bring it back the next...


its been 3 more days... still no PC

I guessing that poor connection buggered the graphics card then. And it was the last one in stock when i bought it so i guess they are secretly waiting a delivery. maybe im wrong

On the otherhand she told me it was fine and that last time she didnt set it up fully so when my power cut the "last good config" that loaded reversed what she did.

I question why she did "half" a job that she KNEW was gonna require another visit eventually. Espcially considering you are supposed to PAY for that
Title: Re: Why will no other graphics card work in my PC!?
Post by: Radnen on June 13, 2013, 01:26:39 am
Why are you going to someone for help HarryBo? I'm pretty sure to be a PC gamer you are supposed to know something about building the computer that you use; computers aren't like consoles where you just buy one and if it breaks it means a warranty breach if you fix it yourself. I mean, it's the only way to beat the pricing of repair places and other computer builders. If you can get the parts from a warehouse and build your own computer you can easily save a bit - especially parts and labour. Then you get around the whole the part doesn't work/fit thing.
Title: Re: Why will no other graphics card work in my PC!?
Post by: Flying Jester on June 13, 2013, 02:37:00 am
Last one in stock?

You could just buy a new (possibly different) graphics card.

I agree with Radnen. If you just read the fine print on parts carefully, you can fix this yourself for less. And if you keep your eyes open and shop around, you can usually find better parts than you had before for less.
Title: Re: Why will no other graphics card work in my PC!?
Post by: Harry Bo21 on June 13, 2013, 11:57:03 am
Im guessing you guys missed the part about needing the card flashed, requiring 2 pci-e slots. I tried everything, even talking to the customer support. Why assume I did not try to fix it first
Title: Re: Why will no other graphics card work in my PC!?
Post by: Radnen on June 13, 2013, 04:38:59 pm
Harrybo: No, I understand you looked at that, but then you were talking about fitting it and other things that weren't quite clear. So I don't know the full picture of the problem. To me it seems, if you indeed tried everything, that you bought a bad card!
Title: Re: Why will no other graphics card work in my PC!?
Post by: Flying Jester on June 13, 2013, 10:02:11 pm
If it really is a matter of the ROM on the card needing UEFI support, I would say it would be better to just buy a new card that comes from the factory with UEFI support.

To me, it seems strange to me that the card needed to be, and then was, reflashed for UEFI. But I haven't had much experience with UEFI, so I could be full of crap on that.
Title: Re: Why will no other graphics card work in my PC!?
Post by: Harry Bo21 on June 15, 2013, 12:38:48 pm
The website for the card says that it supports win 8. So I assumed it would be UEFI flashed.

But when I looked at the physical box it says up to win 7.

I have the PC back now (After over a week). I get no picture until im into windows. If I want safe mode or the bios I have to plug into the onboard graphics.

Also it seems to keep buggering up everytime I turn the pc off. I then have to connect to the onboard graphics. Then turn it off. Plug into the graphics card and turn on. Then it works.

Its =driving me crazy. Everytime I turn my PC on there is a 50/50 chance itll boot straight up. But I have to wait for like 5 10 mins to check. Really don't like not having a picture.

No idea what this woman did but she had it for ages.

PS. Again they did not fix the card in so I did it myself. Bunch of muppets apparently.

Its working right now, Arkham City looks absolutely stunning.

@Flying Jester - Had I known about UEFI prior to buying it I would have. Saying that though after browsing through other models none of the mention anything about UEFI. The customer support people says they have to make the custom firmware at YOUR request and then they send it to you. Great if you actually know or have the means to do that
Title: Re: Why will no other graphics card work in my PC!?
Post by: Rukiri on June 15, 2013, 06:40:58 pm
What socket is the CPU? Have you checked to see if it's the CPU and motherboard?   Are there any loose connections?
Personally I'd build a new PC as it sounds like you have some seriously faulty hardware.
Title: Re: Why will no other graphics card work in my PC!?
Post by: Flying Jester on June 15, 2013, 09:01:52 pm
Hmm, the randomly not starting, needing to use the onboard graphics before using the graphics card, but everything working fine once it starts, does sound like it might be a different issue.

I had a similar problem with a machine a little while ago. I had to fiddle around with the graphics forever to get video (it was an SLI machine, so there were a lot of things I could try). The onboard graphics worked about half the time. After a while I found out that no matter how the cards were arranged or hooked together or even just trying one at a time in different slots, it would almost always start with half the ram pulled out. After a couple months that stopped working nearly as well, and I figured out that it worked better with the two sticks of ram in the other two slots. I thought it was ram, but the ram worked great in another machine I had. After a lot of messing around with it, it turned out to be a bad motherboard.
Title: Re: Why will no other graphics card work in my PC!?
Post by: Harry Bo21 on June 16, 2013, 11:42:02 am
The motherboard thing wouldnt surprise me. Considering the card wasnt held in so was loose.

You did sat that its likely that would damage the motherboard right?
Title: Re: Why will no other graphics card work in my PC!?
Post by: Flying Jester on June 16, 2013, 09:55:16 pm
Very likely.

I know that when I forgot to plug in the six pin power connector to my graphics card, it fried the motherboard and not the card. And once I tried to hot-plug an AGP graphics card into a computer (I've done that successfully with ISA and sometimes PCI cards, though never graphics cards--but you need to have a very steady hand), and it fried the motherboard then, too. I wouldn't recommend trying it.

It's been my experience that such things are not very bad for the card, but terrible for the motherboard.
Title: Re: Why will no other graphics card work in my PC!?
Post by: Harry Bo21 on June 17, 2013, 06:49:15 pm
This is worrying information...
Title: Re: Why will no other graphics card work in my PC!?
Post by: Harry Bo21 on June 18, 2013, 05:42:12 am
Ha now i get this. Nothing was removed and it worked again literally seconds later.

Just popped up randomly
Title: Re: Why will no other graphics card work in my PC!?
Post by: Flying Jester on June 18, 2013, 09:50:56 pm
Direct3D 11 device...removed!? I've never seen anything like that. Although it does make me wonder what would happen if I pulled a PCIe card out while the machine was running...I'll probably have a reason to do that someday...

Bad drivers perhaps? I find that doubtful given the situation. Is it a new model of card? Perhaps you need different drivers to properly go with the UEFI flash? Perhaps the UEFI flash only works right with certain driver revisions?

A very stranger error to get in any case.
Title: Re: Why will no other graphics card work in my PC!?
Post by: Radnen on June 19, 2013, 04:48:49 am
I actually had something similar happen to me with faulty RAM. ???
Title: Re: Why will no other graphics card work in my PC!?
Post by: Vakinox on June 19, 2013, 07:59:43 am
Quote
Ha now i get this. Nothing was removed and it worked again literally seconds later. Just popped up randomly


Just a guess but I ran into this the other day with a friends comp. It would not boot up and I went through everything racking my brain why it would not do so. So I said screw it I will disassemble everything, clean her up and go from there. Once I pulled the ram out and cleaned the sticks, I put them back in and said lets just see what happens. The pc booted right away. Somehow the ram was not being noticed and just by cleaning them cured his problem.

Just by seeing the ram problem is what me think of this issue my friend was having. His ram was securely in place and somehow just maybe from dust was creating a problem with the boot up. I have never seen a computer do this before but do know a comp will not boot unless ram is installed so maybe something is going on with your ram like Radnen suggested.

Quote
I looked at the back of the pc and the card they "fit" is crazy loose? They didn't fit any screws to the case so it was just that one plastic clip on one side of the PCIe that was holding it in? I assume that is the problem.


PCIe cards just need one or two thumb screws near the edge that attach it to the case. There's no screws or anything that attach it to the motherboard itself, just the plastic PCIe clip.

So to get things straight, does it boot when you're just using IGP?


Title: Re: Why will no other graphics card work in my PC!?
Post by: Harry Bo21 on June 19, 2013, 07:22:35 pm
Quote
So to get things straight, does it boot when you're just using IGP?

If IGP is "Internal" (onboard) Graphics then Yes. Otherwise Im not sure what that is.

Quote
I actually had something similar happen to me with faulty RAM.

Y'know, Ive had a few different people mention random faults with their PCs that evidently were caused by the Ram. Its odd. On that note though the PC was only bought in February so I would hope not...

One thing I would like to note about that message is that the only consequence was my game crashed.

Still turned on, still working, same resolution, still plugged into the graphics card. Just crashed Batman

Quote
Bad drivers perhaps? I find that doubtful given the situation. Is it a new model of card? Perhaps you need different drivers to properly go with the UEFI flash? Perhaps the UEFI flash only works right with certain driver revisions?
I did reinstall the drivers. I was really worried about doing it incase I "undid" whatever they did at the shop. Sweating all the way through...

Quote
PCIe cards just need one or two thumb screws near the edge that attach it to the case. There's no screws or anything that attach it to the motherboard itself, just the plastic PCIe clip.
No, not the motherboard, but there should be a screw into the case. There is usually a metal cover that fit over all 4 spaces on the back that would hold the cards in. With one screw onto the case itself.

Unfortunatly the shape of the graphics card prevented me from using that. Take it off... Then there are 4 screw holes for the four corresponding card spaces, as well as lining up with the "grove" on the cards themselves. So its defiantly meant to be there. Otherwise if you plug your monitor in too hard your gonna knock it right? Hell I noticed and im pretty gentle

Quote
Perhaps the UEFI flash only works right with certain driver revisions?
I like this idea. Im not fond of work-arounds. They can have limitations
Title: Re: Why will no other graphics card work in my PC!?
Post by: Flying Jester on June 19, 2013, 08:02:24 pm
IGP does mean internal graphics.

That crash may just be a bug in the drivers, the game, or even in DX (or even a perfect storm of all three).


Quote
I actually had something similar happen to me with faulty RAM.

Y'know, Ive had a few different people mention random faults with their PCs that evidently were caused by the Ram. Its odd. On that note though the PC was only bought in February so I would hope not...


In my case, the RAM and Motherboard were both only a couple months old.

Sometimes you get faulty parts, sometimes only slightly faulty. Some combinations of components don't perfectly play well together. I find that a lot of problems first manifest themselves in the first half a year or so of use.
Title: Re: Why will no other graphics card work in my PC!?
Post by: Harry Bo21 on July 18, 2013, 03:44:59 pm
Just thought id follow up on this. I did try replacing all the ram, made no difference. A lot of wasted money there

The card still does not work properly.

Everytime I restart the PC (usually because windows MAKES me to finish updates or things I just installed) the graphics card fails. The PC tries to start but it cant.

So I have to pull the whole unit out, connect a monitor to the onboard graphics and restart

Then I get the usual "Please wait while we try to repair your PC" message. This obviously returns "unable to resolve problem"

I have to restart again, boot all the way into windows. Shut the PC down again. Swap the monitor back over and boot up again (And this does not ALWAYS work, therefore I have to repeat the steps)

Strange thing though. I have 3 monitors, if I leave the other two plugged in while I do this, they infact DO turn on. I thought you couldn't run the graphics card and onboard at the same time?

Saying that though, this is temper mental too. I thought of just connecting one of the monitors to it and leaving it there. But sometimes THAT screen doesn't turn on? Its plugged in now and not working, yet when I went to work it was?

So after that horrible technician telling me that I just didn't know what I was doing, apparently she doesn't either

then I read about the retailer...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_World_(retailer) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_World_(retailer))

Quote
PC World has attracted criticism in a number of areas. Common complaints include:
Failure to honour statutory responsibilities under the Sale of Goods Act (see controversies below)
Promotion of goods with misleading or incorrect information (see false advertising below)
Promotion of extended warranties (also known as insurance and support packages)[3]
Customers are required to use out-sourced, local rate telephone support for hardware issues or premium rate telephone lines (£1/minute, except for set-up which is 75p/minute) for software issues, unless an extended warranty has been purchased[4][5]
Overcharging for repairs and lack of technical competence among technicians from seven sampled stores[6]

In 2005, a Which? survey ranked PC World joint last for customer satisfaction.[7] In 2006 PC World attempted to get away from its reputation for having sales staff on up to 20% commission who would therefore use high pressure sales tactics with its "One Team" marketing campaign.[8] This involved adverts in major newspapers claiming staff no longer received commission, however this claim is misleading. Staff now receive a bonus based on the performance of the entire store as a whole (up to £200[citation needed]), meaning that pay is still linked to performance. The bonus is also based on other non-monetary metrics, such as customer satisfaction. To compensate the 275 highest earners under the old scheme for reduced bonuses, their basic pay was raised by 16% from around £11,000 to around £13,000 per year.[9]

In response to the perception that PC World staff are often young and lacking in knowledge and communications skills, in 2007 a set of e-learning courses called "The Power of Knowledge" were completed by 6,000 staff[10] and the results were incorporated into their Christmas bonuses as an incentive for staff to improve their knowledge.

In January 2008 a survey for Which? revealed that PC World was ranked in the bottom ten retailers in the UK.[11]


I really don't understand why this acts in such a manner. Im thinking im gonna have to take it to a professional but they have quoted £150! (like $200)

Any advice guys? Im clearly not gonna be able to sort it myself, Im not confident the people at the store have the brain capacity either. Im totally stumped. PC was only bought in February. I am seriously thinking about demanding a return but the unit DOES function without this graphics card. Despite me being very clear with the staff at sale that I NEEDED to upgrade that particular feature as it was subpar...

They told me "no problem, pop any card from the store in and it will go straight away, loading up the windows graphics drivers until you could install the nvidea ones"
Title: Re: Why will no other graphics card work in my PC!?
Post by: Rukiri on August 05, 2013, 11:59:55 am
still sounds like you don't have enough power or the gfx card itself is damaged.